Friday, August 8, 2014

"It doesn't look good on anyone with a full bust" (or putting yourself out there when you're not a model)


"A really huge woman made it, and it looked okay on her."

She wasn't talking about me, was she? I'd read the comment on a PatternReview thread where another poster had posted a question asking if Vogue 1194, a knit dress pattern would work for someone with curves.

Vogue 1194
Off the top of my head, I was the only plus sized who had sewn and reviewed Vogue 1194, so I quickly clicked the link to all reviews for the pattern, scrolled through and discovered that, yes, she was indeed talking about me. I was clearly the largest sewist who had reviewed the pattern so far.

I quickly typed a response in return. My response may have contained the phrase "huge bitch". However, I took a deep breath, deleted my response before I sent it, and instead contacted the board moderator and asked that the post be removed.

Did I look terrible in the dress? Nothing I wear is going to make me look like a size 8, but "huge"? While the dress wasn't exactly bust-minimizing, I thought that it did make my waist look awfully small in comparison, and I liked that about it.

A "really huge woman"
Even though I wanted to "take back" my dress after reading that rude comment, I never wore it again. I was also hesitant to post reviews on Pattern Review for a while after that, as well. (I wasn't actively blogging at the time, which was about four years ago.)

I'm bringing up this incident now because I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about what I feel comfortable publishing on my blog and online in general. When you post something online, whether it's a picture of yourself or a sewing tutorial, most of the responses you get will likely be very positive and supportive. However, you always run the risk of someone saying something that's less than kind. Usually the comments aren't as rude as the one from the Vogue dress incident, but I've still read the following remarks and managed to take them personally:
  • "Don't feel bad, I've seen this pattern made up by many women so far, and I don't think it's looked very flattering on anyone." (Said to someone else who was unhappy how a pattern turned out...when I loved my own version of it.)
  • "That print doesn't do you any favors." (Posted in response to one of my reviews, again for a print dress that I was actually happy with.)
Of course, it's not always the body police who post comments like these. There's also the fit police and the blog police. One sewing blogger took it upon herself to post direct links to blogs showcasing what she felt was sloppy work. I've also seen comments deriding blogs posted by beginner sewists for setting bad examples. (One such comment sparked this very thoughtful post from BeaJay.) Speaking for myself, I rarely post any sort of tutorials because as a largely self-taught sewist, I worry that my way of doing something isn't the "right" way. When I do post anything on fit or tutorial-esque, I'll usually post a disclaimer that "this is how *I* do it; there might be a better way". I've seen other more seasoned and talented sewists than myself post similar disclaimers.

I wonder how many other curvy and plus sized sewists hesitate to blog or post reviews with pictures of themselves because they don't want to open themselves up to potentially hurtful comments. I know that I've gone through phases where I didn't post much online because I didn't want to be vulnerable. (On a side note, somehow in the blur of last month, I missed that the Curvy Sewing Collective set up a private flickr group. Ask to join if you want some body-snark-free curvy sewing inspiration!)

So, what do those of us in the online sewing community do about these things? Mean girls are going to be mean girls, whether they're 16 or 46. Has anyone come up with a good way to deal with these comments when they happen? Do others (besides BeaJay and myself) have a tendency to sometimes take random comments too personally?

56 comments:

  1. First, I thought and still think you look really great in that dress. If you don't still have it, make another! There is nothing about it that isn't nice.
    Secondly, Yes, I do take things personally. Even quite well meaning comments, let alone ones like these. Some people don't engage their brains and others are just horrible. Personally i find wearing new clothes a bit scary anyway (what if it looks terrible and noone tells me? What if it looks terrible and someone does tell me?). If i've made the new clothes the sense of vulnerability increases no end. So putting myself out there on PR is equally scary. I do it because I *love* seeing patterns made up on actual people. It's almost the best feature of PR.
    There is a PR thread that goes into this territory a bit, I read it last night. It's under miscellaneous and called 'Unwritten rules of PR'. I was thinking yesterday that it's great to see you back - i'd noticed that you didn't post much for a while there. Sadly, i have no tips for dealing with these people. I would maybe consider pm-ing the poster of that comment and saying that you recognised yourself and found it hurtful, just to raise her awareness, but you may not want to go there.

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    1. Thanks Lyndle! That thread was part of what prompted me to post this. I felt like I had more that I wanted to say without completely hijacking the thread.

      There were several reasons why I took a break from PR--having a baby and moving were a big part of that--but I was also wrestling with some body acceptance issues. I decided that I needed to get over those issues if I was going to be an emotionally healthy role model for my daughter. ;)

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  2. I am intrigued by your post. I love your sewing, I love what you make, and I think you look great. Your smile and love of your life shines through. And, your sewing is wonderful. There are mean people everywhere that delight in "helping" others. My new mantra is, "Do not engage with crazy and/or mean." Thank you for sharing your creations and love of sewing with those of us not brave enough to blog or post on Pattern Review. You are a hero to many.

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    1. Sue, I think you're onto something there. Many of the eyebrow-raising "helpful" comments I've read reek of the sort of passive-aggressive things I've heard my mom say. (I love my mom dearly, but like many women of my generation, I had it drummed into my head at an early age that I had to be thin to be acceptable.)

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    2. I too learned from my mother and pretty much everyone else that I really should be thin to be a worthwhile person. I even remember one of my aunt's telling my parents that "she's so fat and ugly no one will ever ant to marry her so you better make sure she gets some education."

      When we'd go clothes shopping, my mother used to pull things out and ask what I thought. Regardless of what I said, she'd reply with some schtick about how "this would great on your friend so-and-so. If only you had her cute figure." And then she'd shove it back, commenting what's the point of seeing if its in my size since it would never look as good on me as it would on XYZ.

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    3. Hit "publish" too soon. I wanted to note that I always thought that dress was great on you-- loved the color on you! I think I bought the pattern because I liked your version so much. Haven't sewn it yet, of course. I think I remember the print comments too, which surprised me because I thought the dress was cute on you, and I loved that print. I wished I'd have bought it! But then I am a sucker for a border print.

      I don't post pics in my reviews for a few reasons. 1- I don't want to invite the comments. I think my body shame/ dissatisfaction is actually worse after weight loss, and I don't think I'd handle nasty comments well. I have a mouth, and I'd likely say something snitty. 2-- I like to keep some anonymity on-line, especially after having had a stalker.

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    4. Yeah, I heard a lot of "rules" from my mom (you can wear ____ with your figure, but not ____). What kills me in retrospect was that I was never actually overweight until my late teens--I just developed early had had hips and boobs at a young age, but I and everyone around me seemed to interpret that as being fat and acted accordingly.

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  3. I agree that the dress looks pretty dang good on you. I also agree that the majority of comments are supportive in the sewing community. But when they aren't...it totally feels like a personal "attack"!

    Sometimes I make something and am, "meh". And I'll ask my husband what he thinks. But then there are the times like when I finished my V1395 dress and was practically floating and exclaiming how much I loved it...and he have me the "ugh" face and said it makes me look wide.

    Uhmm. If I like it then just nod and smile. Mmkay??!

    I would probably NEVER say "that looks awful on you!" to anyone.

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    1. Also, I have read several times about plus size sewers being hesitant to photograph themselves wearing their clothes. And it makes me sad.

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    2. LOL, yeah, my husband hates floral prints, and to him, anyone wearing a floral print looks like a couch or wallpaper.

      We *used* to have a lot more plus sized sewists post regularly on PR, but their numbers have decreased in the past few years.

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    3. I'm picky about florals too. I bought a fabric for my mother, without realising it was flocked. Now all I can see is tacky 70's era wallpaper. And with the colors, its wallpaper from a bordello.

      Yeah. Whatever happened to Sherrill and Debbie? And some of the Aussie stitchers that used to review on the plus board? Where'd everyone go?

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    4. I'm not on PR as much NOT because of commenters, but because I was moderated out of existence ... if you remember. lol ... I know you're a mod there, so I'm trying to tread lightly. :-) I was contributing a LOT to PR (on my own time and for free) and feeling like I was just being used by the site owner. Sorry for being blunt and hijacking Michelle's post.

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    5. Correction ... was confusing L**, Bathtub Queen with just "L" ... who is a PR mod. LBQ, as far as I know, is not.

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    6. I remember what you're talking about, and I completely understand. I wonder if that's what also drove some of the other regulars away.

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    7. Not necessarily my exact situation, but similar situations and attitudes definitely contributed to the loss of long-time contributors.

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    8. Not a mod, but I have been a contest whip cracker. I used to used a different L name (my own), but switched after acquiring an internet stalker.

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  4. Michelle, some people have no filter, do they? It's hard not to take those comments personally, because calling anyone 'huge' or any descriptor that is otherwise inappropriate, is personal. You responded in the correct way - having the comment removed. I wish it had been caught and removed immediately. I wish the judgers would keep their comments and their looks to themselves. It's so easy to judge when you're on the outside looking in, isn't it? That goes for so many things in life! Now, about fit. That brings up an interesting topic of conversation. Let's say someone posts a garment she made and says she is thrilled with it, but to my eye, the fit is off or could be improved. Will I say so? No. Why? She's not asking for feedback - she loves her garment! On the flip side, if someone asks for thoughts on fit or styling, I will offer my thoughts if I feel like I can help. No one should be imposing rules re: fit/blogging, etc. It's all personal choice, right? I ran across someone once in a sew along who was just angry b/c others weren't doing things her way (and she was not the host). I think those types are best left to be alone in their anger. There are plenty of people out there who will focus on the positive.
    One more thing - when I look at your pictures, I am always greeted first by your beautiful smile! Keep smiling, Michelle, and show your sewing off proudly!

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    1. I think that's a key difference as far as offering an opinion when someone has asked for feedback vs. not. I know that when someone has asked if a garment looked too boxy, I've certainly suggested styling it with a belt.

      It's all in how you phrase things. There was a new sewist (very new, as in she was sewing her first dress), and on PR, she posted a picture of her darted bodice muslin, which had some fit issues. Wow, was that like throwing a bucket of chum into shark-infested waters--that poor woman's head must have been spinning from all of the differing/conflicting advice she received. And yeah, of course, she got a "this is not the style for you; you should stick with princess seams" comment. I wouldn't blame her if she never posted again; hopefully, she isn't completely discouraged from sewing altogether.

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    2. Yikes. That princess seams comment was mine. I didn't mean it badly. I was trying to be practical: if you are a beginner, it really is more difficult to make large darts behave, and princess seams sidestep that. I'm glad I saw this comment, I didn't realize I came off as such an ass!

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    3. Well, now I feel like the ass! ;)

      And I'm sure that a lot of my reaction to reading that thread was projecting my own feelings from when I'd posted similar threads earlier on. I can't count the number of times that I was more or less told to "stick with princess seams", which, yes, I know are easier to fit. But sometimes you don't want to break up a print or dammit, you just happen to really like a certain (darted) pattern. But I'm stubborn like that. And overly sensitive at times. ;)

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    4. On reflection, it is uncomfortably close to advice like "large girls should stick to solid colors" and similar BS, and I'm glad you called me on it.

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  5. And btw, I hope you still have that dress! If you do, bring it out and wear it!! It's beautiful and you look beautiful wearing the dress.
    And I love what Mrs. Smith said about her husband: "Uhmm. If I like it then just nod and smile. Mmkay??!"

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    1. I have no idea if I still have the dress. I did a major wardrobe purge when we moved, and I don't recall if the dress was involved in that. If I do still have it, it's shoved in the bottom of my knits drawer in my dresser.

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    2. If you don't still have it, you should make it again and call BS on that mean spirited comment.

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  6. I discovered your blog about a month ago, and look forward to each new post. (I'm a fellow Washington State girl). I've really enjoyed watching your mini wardrobe come together, and think everything looks great! The maxi skirt and top outfit is to die for, but frankly, everything I've seen is beautiful on you.

    I've noticed some snarky comments on patternreview and don't understand why people feel the need to offer unsolicited, critical advice. I'd like to think they don't realize what they're doing, and would be horrified to think they hurt someone's feelings, but who knows.

    I'm sorry that I haven't commented before on how much I love seeing what you sew, AND admire what you sew AND how the outfits look on you. I guess I shoudl do more of that, but I tend to sit quietly in the background.

    Remind yourself that for every 1 mean comment, there are about 1,000 of us out here who are admiring your wardrobe, and are only thinking about how good you look!

    Please don't stop blogging and posting and sharing. I learn so much.

    Cindy

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    1. Thank you--I think that's a good reminder for all of us!

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  7. The internet feels like high school sometimes. I am already self conscious about myself, I don't need random people pointing out stuff. I understand how personnal these comments can feel: we put our heart and soul into what we make and someone ruins it for us. I think you handled the entire thing brilliantly!

    I am one of those girls who hates having her picture taken: I have insecurities like everyone. I still take pictures for my blog even though I despise it because I want to conquer these issues. I'm sure someone will come along someday and challenge me even more with a hurtful comment: I want to be ready. I hope I can be as gracious as you were with the meanies!

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    1. I hear you on using your blog photos to help you get over your insecurities. I think that's helped me quite a bit--you sort of become desensitized to seeing photos of yourself when you see them all the time.

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  8. You totally are a knock out in the V1194 dress! We can't control what others say or may feel about us, but what we can control is how we feel about ourselves! I'm so glad to see that you didn't let someone's insensitive comment stop you from being GREAT!

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  9. Michelle…
    As another plus size sewer who has huge body issues, I have been so pleased to watch your progress with your wardrobes and your sewing. As many others have said, seeing your smile just warms up the day for me. You look happy and well-adjusted and if you are happy with something and feel good about yourself and your garment, then that’s all that matters. Of course if you’re looking for feedback and aren’t sure about something, that’s an entirely different ball game.

    I doubt there is a woman out there who doesn’t dislike something about her body, and the ones who spend all their time obsessing about it are the ones who become the mean girls. I have listened to my husband’s ex, a size 0 who in her mid 50s had liposuction and a tummy tuck for a “pooch.” She slams other women all of the time, but poses at 60 plus in a bikini and posts it on facebook. She’s just really mean about all other women, but I think it’s because she is so unhappy with herself.

    I don’t post anything on PR because I just don’t want others putting their opinions on me. The women who post on my blog are generally very kind and only offer opinions when I ask for them. It’s just been recently that I have begun posting pictures of myself in my garments instead of hanger shots, and it’s because of people like you and Bea Jay and some others. We all need to be positive and proud that we are able to make things we like in our colors that pretty much fit the bodies we have and not worry about the mean girls.

    I always try to remember what my daughter told her daughter in kindergarten. A little girl was being very mean to Nicole and her mother asked why she played with her if she was so mean. Nicole responded that she knew she was always supposed to be nice to everyone. My daughter set her straight right away, and the comment has always stuck in my head. You do have to be nice to everyone, but you don’t have to play with the mean girls!

    You’re beautiful, intelligent, friendly, compassionate, and who the hell cares what the mean girls say. They’re just stupid and self-centered and insecure anyway!

    Hugs and thanks for the post!

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    1. Yeah, I'm feeling more and more that PR is a weird mix of demographics, among other things. It could just be me, but I remembered the environment being more supportive on there back when I started. But maybe that's just me.

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  10. I also think you look fabulous in that dress. The colour looks fab and it is a great fit. It is a shame that someone's thoughtless comment made you feel uncomfortable in that lovely dress.

    By and by the sewing community is fabulous and most are so supportive and helpful. There will always be people who think their judgement outweighs other people (and outweighs polite society for that matter). I am lucky that I haven't had any negative comments directed personally at me so far. When I first started blogging I used to cut my head off in the pictures lest someone saw me... That feeling soon evaporated due to the supportive community in the sewing and blogging world and I refuse to let a small minority change that.

    Thank you for sewing your lovely garments and posting. You are an inspiration.

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    1. I agree with you BeaJay. Love your work and blog too. Keep sharing.

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  11. I, also, am hesitant about posting my sewing online. I belong to several FB sewing groups, and read many sewing and fashion blogs. I've done the initial blog set up for myself but never went live. I admire all full figured women with sewing/fashion blogs. There is such a mean, pervasive mentality that feels we don't deserve to exist, let alone be allowed air time. We have no control over the filtering mechanism that would weed out the unkind words or thoughts of the insensitive and spiteful. However, we do have a choice to live above the criticism. "The best revenge is living well" Jerry Seinfeld.

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  12. First, I want to say that you are beautiful. I love your smile, and the curl in your hair and I love that your body is a lot more like mine than most of the people that post online. I am so glad you share what you sew. I understand very well what you are saying though because I am scared to post things I made for me online. I tell myself I will "when I lose a little weight" etc. I have been severely criticized A LOT in my life and am also sensitive. With other stuff I have going on, I can't afford to have more negative in my life right now - who knows maybe the positive could outweigh it and I really need that. I can't tell you how much I appreciate people who have more average/curvy, not the social ideal bodies posting things they sew. It makes me feel like I'm not alone in the world and I love seeing how different patterns fit.

    I agree with Robin that there is a sickening, pervasive view of full figured women and it is one of the few things left people seem to think is fine to attack without being politically correct like they are about so many other things. I love you and BeaJay too and really love your blogs!

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    1. Thanks Natalie, and that's why I continue to post pictures of me wearing my garments, even if I'm not feeling great about myself. I figure that it's likely to help someone else to see how a pattern fits or doesn't fit.

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  13. The dress looks awesome, no doubt there.
    I'm a petite plus with an apple figure and frankly if anyone said I'd tackled a dress like that and it looked okay as an encouragement to someone else, I'd be pleased. Their idiotic labeling aside, I'd won. Perhaps if they'd just put a link to your review and said a generic " you should see this" instead?

    Also, I think there's a badge to put on a blog as a indicator for those who want to critique at La Sewista. Might be worth a look:
    http://lasewist.blogspot.com/2014/07/an-experimentare-you-game.html
    Perhaps a modified badge like that would help guide commentary on your blog? Sort of a heads up to think twice?
    ps. I agree with Natalie that you're never fully dressed without that smile. ; )

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  14. Another Washington/Seattle sewist weighing in here with huge thanks to you for being a full-figured blogging sewist. I share your body type and am inspired and educated by your wonderful garments. I've thought of blogging about my adventures in Juno-esque sewing (especially since I am a 65 year old plus-size sewist, a very under-represented category in the online sewing community), but having to deal with blog comments has held me back. Can a blogger turn off the comments option? Please keep sewing, blogging, and reviewing. (And BTW, your daughter and the garments you make for her are adorable.)

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  15. That dress looks fabulous on you! You are blessed with a buxom figure. Are you supposed to cover yourself with a tent and look 10x larger? Some people are horrid. I feel thankful that I haven't seen any hurtful comments directed at myself. That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but ya never know. You have to be thick skinned on the internet. Thank God I don't read forums! I'd hate to see some mean girl comments about me! We do occasionally have rude comments on the CSC. People like to hide behind anonymous avatars and say what they want. I'm sorry it made you feel bad. We are generally nice and supportive in our sewing community and it sucks to see some bad apples. I'm glad you continue to post photos because I love to see them!

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    1. I love that the CSC made their flickr group invite-only. I think that removes a lot of the fear about posting a less-than-perfect garment. Or *gasp* posting pictures of a swimsuit or something like active wear. The "among friends" feeling in the CSC is great.

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  16. I have just read your post and it really saddens me to think anyone can make you feel bad about yourself. So often people are judgmental about women who are bigger and probably the worst are ourselves. I am very critical of myself. I find it very difficult to put pictures of myself out there but I do. I am who I am. You look really happy and I agree with others I think the dress looks good, you should wear it. I really enjoy your blog and your images. I guess you just have to ignore people who are mean spirited but they will never have the happy wonderful life you have because nothing will ever be right for them. I guess all we can do is feel sad for them.

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  17. It's a great dress, and you look nice in it. I would avoid any group or forum that had meanness and toxic behaviours in it. You don't need that, no-one does. Keep sewing, keep posting, and keep smiling that winning smile.

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    1. That's a very solid point and something to keep in mind in all walks of our lives. "Toxic" is a great word to describe those situations.

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  18. Blogging is odd isn't it? It takes guts to post pictures of yourself online, I still struggle with it. The majority of blog readers are nice though so please keep blogging and posting your makes are great. It's hard by try not to let those few mean people spoil this for you. Your good at sewing keep it up.

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    1. I have no intent to stop blogging at the moment; both of those incidents happened a few years ago (although I did take a break for a while after the "huge" incident). I just felt like I'd been seeing a bit of an increase in backhanded body snark comments lately and wanted to show what it's like to be on the other side of those comments.

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  19. It's times like these that I really wish I was a Southern woman. A good 'Bless your heart...' never goes astray. I've even taught my daughter how to effectively use that phrase, which is kind of amusing because we're from Australia. I suppose that's southern in its own way! LOL.

    I find as I get older, I'm becoming a lot more comfortable in my own skin, largely because I'm surrounded by people who love me for who I am, not what I look like. That doesn't mean that I am truly happy with my body, but I'm making peace with it.

    And mark me down as another 'smile lover'! I swear that is the absolute first thing I notice every single time I see a review of yours. Beautiful!

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    1. Apparently I'm not finished. :-)

      When someone makes a comment like that, it says WAY more about them than it does about you. Your response to the situation was classy. Impressive.

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    2. I don't know, Southern women can be very bitchy and catty too. When they say "Bless Your Heart" and you know they mean something totally different, it isn't really nicer. Using religion to mask meanness might seem "holy" but truly God really knows what is in their heart and blessing someone when you mean to damn them is the same as cursing with a dollop of hypocrisy.

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  20. Well, to any self glorifying size 0 ... a size 4 is going to be huge. Meh.
    Not your circus, not your monkey.

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  21. I have been sewing and knitting clothes for the past year, and have really only posted photos of a few. A big part of this is because of people's comments online. I am bigger than most patterns run (both taller and wider!) so require extensive altering. I have been hurt by comments online that aren't even directed at me personally, more along the lines of if people see a knitting pattern on a big person, it looks bad and then they don't want to make it. implying that I am doing the designers a favor by keeping my ultraplus version under wraps!

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  22. I like to see garments on people of all shapes and sizes. It gives me an idea of how things will look on me. People can kiss my butt if they don't like how something looks. I like your reviews and your confidence shows in all your pictures. That is the most important thing, confidence. I never let my shape/size keep me from reviewing. There are a lot of 40+ gals out there sewing with an apple shape like mine. I figure I am doing the world a service by reviewing patterns.

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  23. I was just reading an old thread on a Hot Patterns coat/notched collar. You were just amazing, finishing up your current pattern and then diving into this one to help another member on PatternReview. You have a generous spirit. I know I am plus size and I take up space and that is okay. I thought the quote from the poster sounded maybe young and oblivious -- at least I like to think it was youth and foolishness, not malice. I am knocking on 50's door and do miss my fellow posters who are around my age and size that used to post a lot. Luckily many have blogs. Anyway, Hugs to you and keep up doing what you love.

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  24. Oh, I hope you are wearing that dress, now. It drapes so nice and is very flattering! I would be so happy to look so nice in a dress! And the colour is amazing with your hair and skin

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  25. Oh, just found this blog. I think that dress looks more than okay on you. I kind of love it and it does make your waist look small. And that was a mean comment by that poster. And I'm quite critical. I just don't post anything if I think something critical unless specifically asked. Though to add a dissenting a voice, I actually saw nothing wrong with the comment made that said she hadn't seen that dress look good on anyone. She was trying to make the other person feel better, and she wasn't addressing every dress ever made by anyone and who knows if she even saw your dress, it wasn't a curvy/skinny gibe, and it sounds like her problem was actually with the pattern itself and that it hadn't flattered anyone! The fact that you made one you liked should just be chalked up to different strokes since NO ONE could make her like that pattern.

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  26. I think you are rockin' this dress! The fit looks good, the color is great on you and the style suits you well. You look fabulous and by the smile on your face you love it. Wear it and make more. I think it is likely that "they" just did not like the pattern which I get because I don't like it on the model as much as I like it on you.

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