I usually try to keep things fairly positive on this blog, but sometimes you just need a good rant to blow off some steam. I've been so stressed out that I've found seven things to vent about. Why seven? Because I couldn't narrow the list down to six, and I didn't really have ten.
Here goes...
Pet Peeve 1: Patterns whose largest size is a 41" bust and 44" hip.
I know that some pattern designers have defended themselves saying that they need a different pattern block at a certain size, but having such a narrow size range just reeks of body snobbery to me. It reminds me of the Project Runway designer who vocally whined during a "real woman" challenge about his client having 43" hips.
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| Size chart from an unnamed indie pattern company |
Look, it doesn't take a lot of sewing experience when you're plus sized to figure out that the patterns that fit you best are the ones where the designer either uses a separate block for plus sizes or uses a larger size as their sample/prototype (for example, HotPatterns starts at a size 16 and grades up and down from their). But, when your patterns stop at a 41" bust, would it really kill you to add one or two more sizes? Do you really need a second block for that?
And before you tell me that I should just "grade up" a pattern if I like it, do I really want to spend those extra hours of work on grading unless the pattern was a cheapo that I picked up at a Hancock sale or traced out of a magazine?
Pet Peeve 2: Being told that a certain figure type "can't" wear certain styles or that certain figure types "have to" stick to certain styles.
For example, horizontal stripes, skinny jeans/pants, raglan sleeves, dropped shoulders, kimono sleeves are all supposed "no-no's" on a curvy figure. Try being short on top of this--I'm not supposed to wear maxi-length anything, either.
Most of these "rules" don't take proportion or styling into account, anyway. If you wear a shaped jacket over a shapeless, boxy top, you no longer have a shapeless silhouette. Scarves and jewelry can draw the eye up and break up a "too high" neckline.
I truly think that if you have self confidence and know a few styling tricks, you can pull off most garments that you're comfortable with.
Pet Peeve 3: Thinking that every single piece of clothing you own had to make you look 10 pounds thinner.
For example, "Dress in all one color to create a lengthening vertical column", or "Stay away from boxy tops if you have a defined waist." Sometimes something can be worth wearing because it's comfortable and a good color on you. Like the pet peeve before it, this one irks me because it's imposing needless limitations on us, and don't we have enough limitations already?
If I always want to look 10lbs thinner, I should probably really focus and work my ass off to lose 10lbs. Monochromatic dressing is boring.
Pet Peeve 4: Pattern cup sizes that stop at a "D" and act like they're doing curvy women a favor.
I especially love this when the pattern copy includes a blurb along the line of "Includes multiple cup sizes so that you don't have to do an FBA!" or something like that.
Really? Some studies indicate that the average cup size in the US is a "D", which means that half of the women in this country need a cup size larger than a D.
I do get it on some level; I'm always thankful when I only have to do an FBA of, say, 2 inches instead of 4. (Granted, I start using "fudging it" FBA methods when I need more room than that, anyway.) However, I can count the pattern designers out there that have designs for a DD+ cup on one hand. That bites.
Pet Peeve 5: Shapeless sacks and shapeless sacks with belts around them masquerading as plus sized designs.
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| Sack dress from BurdaStyle |
Who wants to look like this? This isn't going to look good on hardly anyone. Just because I'm a larger woman doesn't mean that I want to hide from the world.
Pet Peeve 6: Someone who wears size 36 in Burda saying, "Ooh, I like the Burda Plus designs better than the regular designs--you're so lucky!"
I see this one nearly every month on PatternReview when someone starts the thread for the new BurdaStyle preview that's just been posted. I think this one bothers me because I find it really condescending.
Really, you're telling us that we're lucky when we're limited (outside of grading) to five or so patterns every issue? And nearly every issue, at least one of those patterns is one of the shapeless sacks mentioned in Pet Peeve 5? You get practically the whole magazine, if you're a size 36-44. Don't tell me I'm lucky because I get one decent knit top pattern, a dress, a shapeless sack, a basic trouser pattern, and some weird rectangle thing every issue.
Okay, I feel a little better now.
Is it just me, or are my fellow curvy and plus sized seamstresses irritated by some of these same things? Or are you irritated by different things?
A final word...
And on that note, I'll leave you with this brilliant scene from last week's episode of Louis CK:
Thank you for being so honest! Yes, yes, yes. I do share most of your "pet peeves." Especially the "sack like" things they think we all should wear. One you didn't mention is that it seems like most designers think all overweight women have the same bodies with their weight located in the same places? I can't believe how many garments I've tried on that assume I'm flat chested with a big belly and butt! I still have an hourglass, it's just now takes a few hours instead of one!
ReplyDeleteAnd I loved the clip. I've never heard of the show, but now will be looking for it. I can't tell you how many people have said "you're not fat" to me at a size 22-24!
Thanks! I love Louis CK and usually find his show very funny, but this episode hit a particular nerve with me (and with a lot of other people). I will warn you that Sarah Baker's character appears to be a one-off; she hasn't appeared since this episode.
DeleteI love the pet peeves. It's difficult for a plus sized sewist to attempt to make something that fits well, is stylish, and compliments her figure and lifestyle through the use of commercial patterns. This is a constant struggle for me. I've humbly concluded that RTW just doesn't work out for me. But, I've settled for RTW maxi dresses, dark pants, big tops and leggings until I can produce a reasonably fashionable, well fitting wardrobe from my well stocked sewing room. Getting the style on the pattern envelope to become a wearable object is on going aggravation because of my low functioning skill set. I've convinced myself that this goal is worthy and I press on.
ReplyDeleteI think you're onto something there. Part of the struggle of sewing your own clothes when you're plus sized is having a limited idea how a garment will look on your body, even when a pattern does go up to your size.
DeleteI could swear that there were a lot more plus sized pattern reviews a few years ago, but those numbers really seemed to drop off. Now, we either have to play guinea pig for a pattern (which I'm more than happy to do some of the time), or sit and wait and hope that someone else a similar size will make it up and review it or blog about it.
I thought there were more plus sized reviewers on PR just a few summers ago-- some of them were pretty prolific too. Admittedly, some of them had very different bodies than mine and different styles, but there seemed to be more reviews and discussions. I think most people give supportive feedback, but every once in a while, someone pops in with nasty comments about looking bigger or whatever, and I think it really hurts the sense of community.
DeleteYes, some of the more active plus sized or just generally curvy PR members seem to have disappeared. I know that Debbie has had a LOT of other things going on in her life in the past couple of years, but others just quietly went away.
DeleteOn the other hand, it's hard enough to put yourself out there, but it's really painful when someone makes a hurtful comment (intentionally hurtful or not). I've had it happen to me, and I know that others have, as well.
Thank you! It's so frustrating as a plus size woman to not have clean access to the great indie patterns. There's an unnamed skirt I'd love to make but do I really want to spend $20 when I'm going to have to grade to a 24 from a 16? It's just never gonna happen.
ReplyDeleteYup. That's why I won't buy brands that require me to do more than a reasonable FBA and/or adding a little to the side seams. I'd rather spend my money on something where fitting isn't going to be a hassle.
DeleteI was nodding my head the whole time I was reading this. You are so on the nose with all of these points. Thank you for writing this post. It's always affirming to see that other women share some of my struggles and frustrations.
ReplyDeleteThank you. :) I know that part of that struggle and frustration is feeling isolated sometimes, so it helps to know that you're not alone.
DeleteYes, yes. Especially about Burda and their sack offerings. This is one of the reasons i'm so keen on style arc. Not everything they make suits my shape, but it's nice to have the option!
ReplyDeleteStyleArc is great. I love that they offer nearly all of their patterns in a very full size range. I bought their Patsy top largely because of your version. (That one is still on my to-sew-soon-list.)
DeleteAgreed! I hope that the pattern companies will realize soon the huge potential for designing for a broader range of figures. I had to laugh at the D cup thing as well - though I'm a HH so I'm not sure any pattern company will ever accommodate that! (except Seamster patterns whose 3XL seems to fit my bust....)
ReplyDeleteI'm with you. I don't expect pattern companies to go up to my cup size, but can you throw us a bone and go up to a DDD or so in the upper sizes? FWIW, I can often get away with no FBA (or a small FBA) in HotPatterns (the upper size range is drafted for a generous DD).
DeleteAnd as far as Seamster goes, I haven't tried their patterns yet (although I have my eye on the Dandelion top/dress), but I read somewhere that they have Betsy from SBCC grade their patterns (at least in the plus size range), and I can vouch from the couple of SBCC patterns that I've tried that she has a very good sense of curves/plus sized drafting.
Totally understand this as I'm also a petite plus. Only parts that don't apply are bust cup challenges...only a B so most of the plus is from the waist down. : P
ReplyDeleteI do wish the 'sack with a belt' idea would just die already. This cop-out made me abstain from buying a magazine that used/wasted one of their few plus size slots on it. Nobody needs a pattern to make that.
This is also a really good point. There's a lot of variation to where plus sized women carry their weight. And I think that's also what causes some designers to throw up their hands in frustration when they actually do attempt to design for plus sizes.
DeleteOh yes!!! I agree with all of these. SO MANY independent patterns stop at really small sizes - I just discovered another one this week. Also the cup size patterns that stop at a D. Seriously, how many larger size sewers would that help? Very few. My other big peeve is crappy drafting that means larger size patterns have enormous shoulders - looking at you Big 4. The alterations required to get around this awful drafting is so tedious it makes me want to give up.
ReplyDeleteIt's really disappointing about the sizing. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a review/blog post about a cute new indie pattern from a curvy (although not plus sized) sewist, then went to check out the pattern's size chart, and just went, "Oh."
DeleteNumber six: I HATE THIS SO VERY MUCH. Especially when that person has CLEARLY never had a plus size body and starts arguing with actual plus size people about their opinions on the patterns. I once wrote an enormous frothing post on my journal about this and then deleted it before I could post it because nobody needs my outpouring of rage over a few random idiots.
ReplyDeleteMy other HUGE peeve with Burda is that about a year ago they started including these "helpful" body shaming tips in their magazine. "Helps cover a slight tummy!" the text says, over a shapeless sack that would also allow you to strap a small child to you under the fabric without anyone being the wiser. RAGE.
They also like to suggest really high heels to lengthen the body and make you look taller.
DeleteI often refer to those sack dresses as garments for smuggling stolen art, as having compartments for secret hams, or being useful in baby smuggling operations.
It doesn't excuse the backhanded comments, but I will give Burda props for actually using somewhat curvy models now for their Plus designs. I remember the days when you couldn't tell the plus models from the regular models in the online previews.
DeleteLove it! Your peeves are fabulous I couldn't agree more. I see a pattern that I love and then I find it difficult to grade up and then I loose interest. i love style arc patterns as well. Love the clip.
ReplyDeleteI also love that StyleArc includes plus sized women in their garment gallery, right along with slimmer women.
DeleteDoes HotPatterns still have their gallery? Because I remember they had lots of different sizes and bodies represented in theirs too. And so does Lekala. Burda-- ah well.
DeleteHotPatterns got rid of their gallery when they did their web site redesign a few years back. The new HotPatterns group on Facebook, though, does appear to have all shapes and sizes participating.
DeleteAll of these are spot on. It also stinks that plus folks have to settle for a handful of clothes to choose from in the rtw section and have to sew everything on their body instead of picking and choosing what they want to sew like other people.Lots of big people in this country, can't we have some rtw to supplement our sewing life. I bitched out the big store in the mall town nearby as they put the plus sized clothes over in the home goods store next door when they were remodeling. I can buy an expensive purse but have to walk half a mile to another building to see the handful of items for the big women. I don't mind the walk but that says volumes. I totally agree about independent patterns not offering beyond 16 or so being a big peeve. I'm just not buying. I have to rework big 4 but at least they are $1. Not tossing money at being ignored. The mall store understood the big ladies getting irate and got the rtw moved back pronto. I'd really like to sew the dressier things and buy the basics but have sort of resigned to the fact that I since I need more basic pieces that fit well since I am home a lot I should spend my time sewing those. I see mall stores closing all the time and think hmmmm if you had something I could wear I might have spent money there. Obviously the skinny sisters didn't save them.
ReplyDeleteThe lack of RTW in plus sizes is a big reason why I sew. I occasionally find something decent at Lane Bryant, but that's pretty rare. Torrid is too young for me, and most other plus sized RTW is too mature. Old Navy's extended sizes work well for me for casual (their non plus sizes go up to a 20).
DeleteI feel like shaking my fist at you, crazy old man style. I am thisclose to ordering that Julep skirt. And it is all your fault. Your skirt is just that cool.
DeleteYour exemplar Burda pic is hilarious.
ReplyDeleteWhy is a Muppet eating her head?
Also the monochrome idea can be very unappealing as well. As much as people like to say it streamlines and draws the eye up and down, it often makes a body look like a big slab because nothing breaks up the block.
I actually do think of indie cos. in similar terms, BUT I categorize the indies as well. A new indie with, say, just one- three patterns and a small size range that uses etsy or a blog, and only has pdfs, I view differently than an indie with a more elaborate store front, a sizable collection of designs, and also has printed patterns etc. The first I see as someone *just starting* and maybe still working on drafting, writing instructions, etc. I find it easier to give these companies a pass on limited sizes, in the hopes that eventually, they may include a bigger size range.
Other pet peeves: assuming a larger body must be necessarily unhealthy. Assuming a larger body must be lazy. Assuming a larger body must be neutral in reference to sex or gender identity.
I agree with you on the indies just starting out. When I went to look for my size chart image, it actually took a couple of tries to find one because some of the companies that used to be the most blatant offenders have expanded their size ranges since the last time I looked at them.
DeleteThe Burda pic, on the other hand, I found really easily. ;)
I also wonder as well if those in Europe tend to follow European size groups, which are smaller and more limited than the US. I do agree that there is likely some size discrimination and size-ism at play, but I also think that some designers *may* try to expand their ranges if they get positive feedback, encouragement, and see more images of plus size sewists really rockin' fashion forward or classic designs.
DeleteI just ordered the skirt from Stepalica because I think it is really cool and unique. I ill have to adjust the fit.
I meant to ask: what company has expanded? Because I know of a few companies that I was interested in, and if its one of those, I'd love to check back with them.
DeletePapercut Patterns (one of the more expensive indies anyway) used to be one of the biggest offenders, but now they offer most of their patterns in an XL (44" bust, 46") hip. Maria Denmark has also started doing some expanded sizing. Salme has added a size 18 (you can see their old sizing on PR from when it stopped at a 40" bust).
DeleteThanks for the heads-up on Papercut. I actually don't even remember looking at the size chart after seeing the price and thinking about shipping charges! I am intrigued by them, in part because from what I've heard about the packaging, their patterns just sound *kewl.*
DeleteI had some luck with Maria DK's free pattern so I may try her's. I'll look at Salme again. I don't remember seeing anything from her at PR that really caught my eye.
A while back, there was a thread at PR about Burda's sizing and I posted to it. Then a year or so later, another thread came up about plus size options in general and here's what I posted there. Because basically, I call shenanigans on Burda's comments in the original thread about drafting stopping at certain sizes because plus sizes need special consideration to make sure there isn't too much cleavage, bra straps are covered, backs aren't too low (or non-existent!) to prevent wearing a bra, making sure skirts are long enough to be appropriate (don't want to see fat thighs, I guess-- eye roll), etc.
ReplyDelete*****
A year or so ago, there was a really interesting thread on a reply a PRer got from Burda about how they decide which designs will be in what size ranges. I tried to find the thread for part of the morning and couldn't find it. What I remember is this: when deciding on what to plus or how high to size it, they consider the design versus the "needs" of a plus sized wearer. For example, if low neckline is an important design element, they won't/don't size it too high because it will be too low because of cleavage and the need for a bra. If its backless, again, the need for a bra and possibility of back fat dictates the upper end of the size range. Etc on skirt/dress lengths.
They also commented that they try to address a range of needs/occasions over a few issues for all their readers. For example, if one issue features formal wear for plus sizes, the next might feature career wear, the next casual, etc. Likewise, they try to mix up what pieces are offered. So its never just a bunch of skirts issue after issue.
I recall replying on the thread that I call shenanigans. First, just because a women wears a smaller size doesn't mean she doesn't have larger breasts. It also assumes smaller women don't mind wearing low cut garments. And if a top has such low plunge, it probably ISN'T professional for a thin women in many career settings. Of course, no single design will appeal to all people, and it shouldn't really try to. But its disingenuous to say large women need thick straps and then feature a spaghetti strap top for them! What makes an a-line skirt inappropriate to be sized up to a 52, given this style is usually touted as universally flattering and with the right length is appropriate for near any occasion?
At the time, there was speculation if this decision was more economic- as in it would be more expensive for them to keep drafting the designs up. However, if they did, they would probably get more readers and thus make more money. I can totally understand how a plus reader might not want to subscribe to get the 5 or so designs featured in each magazine. Especially given that many times those 5 designs are really 3 designs with minor variations (length, sleeves, etc). As much as I like Burda, I sometimes find it very frustrating (and I don't mean the instructions!).
I think that the most damning argument against Burda is that Ottobre Woman offers nearly all of their designs in sizes 34-52. Sometimes, they'll do two slightly different variations for the misses' size block and the plus's, but they have very good size coverage. Granted, Ottobre features fewer patterns per issue than Burda and puts out fewer issues per year, but I also suspect that Burda has a much larger subscription base.
DeleteOne thing I especially like about Ottobre is that they show the size the model wears. And as much as I enjoy a good fashion editorial, I also really appreciate clothes being framed clearly. There are far too many examples of Burda designs being obscured by a fashion ed approach. That's another bonus of Ottobre-- their photos are almost always painstakingly clear. Also, I like that they use the designs from that issue with each other and only occasionally throw in one of their staple envelope patterns; they never "sell" a look using RTW.
DeleteFor me, I think Burda does make some choices of what they'll grade up arbitrarily. Trench coats? A-line skirts? Shirt dresses? Swing jackets? Straight skirts? There is NO reason for any of these to not be sized across their range. And I bet Burda has a really large readership, subscription and magazine stand. The last time I spent the summer in Europe I bought 3 copies of Russian Burda, which were stolen from my luggage at a customs check somewhere along the way (oddly enough so were all of the dictionaries I had with me as well).
Wow! Just found your blog and read from the most recent to here. Then read through all the comment. I think your pet peeves are valid. Here's mine - I'm really, really enjoying the Curvy Sewing Collective. My impression was that they were plus sized. I'd really, really like to see some transparency in the sizes they are making - not to judge, but to be able to say, you know, she made an Ottobre 52 and is totally rocking it! I think more of the indies are grading up and are asking plus sized bloggers to test their patterns and do blog tours and honestly - not all of them are the rock star bloggers that most of the traditional pattern testers are.
ReplyDeleteOkay - totally off on a tangent. Must be time to go read my book. Nice to meet you. g
Nice to meet you, too! (I just discovered your blog through Jenny's post the other day.) Although I love what they're doing, I feel like you have a valid point about size transparency--I've noticed that some members of the collective posts size information and some don't. Given that the collective itself is new and that the participants run the spectrum of sewing and blogging experience, I'm chalking that up to inexperience and/or the body issues that many of us are still dealing with/working through. Given that they've only been around as a collective for a few months, I'll be curious to see where they take things.
DeleteI just posted a comment on The Curvy Sewing Collective blog- the author made a cute dress from an indy pattern. She had to grade up a size and then do alterations...AND she had been one of the pattern testers!!! A few commenters said they wished it came in sizes larger than 16, but I was much stronger in my disapprobation (and then felt terribly guilty about it).
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad I came across this post just now. I am all for supporting small business (my husband and I have had more than one over the years) BUT we curvy girls need to have more self respect than to pay $14 + for patterns we have to redraft. Thanks so much for your blog!
Agreed on many of these. I now refuse to buy from pattern companies that don't have my size. Not because I can't grade up, but because I don't want to support them if they won't support me. Also, what is up with Burda and their plus-size sack patterns? Ugh!!! I've seen many blogosphere complaints on this, and yet Burda continues to not listen. Ugh.
ReplyDelete